There have been many comments flying around alleging that there are no old rite Masses in Argentina apart from those offered by the SSPX. It seems that things are different. Clarin.com reported that 48 hours after Pope Benedict issued Summorum Pontificum, Archbishop Bergoglio arranged for Mass according to the usus antiquior to be said regularly at St Michael the Archangel in Buenos Aires. (Source: Clarin.com: Regresó la misa en latín, con mujeres cubiertas por mantillas)
There is also a google map of places where Mass is said in the old rite in Argentina according to the provisions of Summorum Pontificum. (i.e. not the SSPX chapels in Argentina but regular chapels either diocesan or religious.) Una Voce Argentina also has news of Masses celebrated in that country.
Unless these sources are all completely bogus, they do scotch one rumour that seems to be taking hold. I have seen bald assertions in various places that there are no old rite Masses in Argentina except those of the SSPX. That is wrong.
It may be that Cardinal Bergoglio was not personally enthusiastic about the usus antiquior but as a Jesuit who exercised authority, it seems that he was loyal enough to implement Summorum Pontificum. Let us pray for him as he enters the world of papal liturgy which may be a different experience from the liturgy celebrated in many places in Argentina. Let us pray especially that he be given the grace of state as he begins his ministry as the successor of Peter.
H/T Defénde nos in proelio and the comments box of Holy Souls Hermitage.
34 comments:
Thank you Fr Tim! This is very helpful.
Thank you Father for the clarification. They also have Juventutem down there. And the Franciscans of the Immaculate.
Thank you Father. I think some had decided who shoul be Pope and were then disappointed. Obviously they forgot that those that enter Pope leavecardinal applies to them Thanks for this background research
Maybe my faith is weak, but I am deeply disturbed by the election of the new Pope.
Hopefully my fears will prove unfounded, but it seems that Pope Francis has little love of the Traditional Mass.
What will happen to the negotiations between Rome and the SSPX?
How much of Novus Ordo will be forced onto a revision of the Missal of 1962?
You are so predictable :-) Would you like to mention social justice?
An even clearer article :
http://www.lineacapital.com.ar/?noticia=31360
"El sacerdote informó que oficiará una misa en latín "cada domingo", a las 10, por pedido del arzobispo de Buenos Aires, cardenal Jorge Bergoglio.
"Voy a oficiar una misa cada domingo. El cardenal me lo pidió para que haya alguna en el país", explicó el padre Dotro."
This weekly TLM was created in Buenos Aires from a specific and clear request of our current Holy Father.
I am the main author of the map, and it is being watched by a member of Una Voce Argentina. There are for sure places where the Traditional Mass is celebrated, not without difficulties.
Thank you so much for this,very informative indeed Father.
Thanks for this. I didn't like what I was seeing, last night, but these things are important to me.
My guess/hunch is that Pope Francis has been so consumed - by his own nature and by his training (first as a chemist) - with looking at the practical evidence, the immediate, visible realities of caring for the poor that he hasn't really cultivated a "poetic" sense of the other, abstract realities of liturgy.
I can live with that, even if I disagree with it.
By the way, Villa Celina is in the Province of Buenos Aires, not in Buenos Aires city.
GREAT news! Thanks for posting this.
It'd be interesting to see what you think. The map was sent to us by a friendly correspondent, but there are other details we thought might be interesting as well, like his association with Communion and Liberation. http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2013/03/pope-francis-brighter-portrait.html?m=1
Dear Father,
Thank you for debunking the claims that there are "no Masses in Argentina", which is untrue.
Having I have checked the map and have visited the sites, I can report that I have found six Churches that offer the Extraordinary Form on a Sunday, in all of Argentina.
Argentina has a total area of 1,073,518 square miles and a population of 41,281,631 of which 33 million (89%) are baptised Roman Catholics.
Six Masses on a Sunday, even if they happen to be the ones that I can find, is lip-service to Summorum Pontificum.
Bear in mind, that the UK which has a total area of 94,060 square miles and a population of 63,181,775, of which 5,264,000 (8.87%) are Catholics and we have 40+(?) Summorum Pontificum Masses on a Sunday.
It's a very weak effort, if at all, of offering an Apologia pro Jorge Bergoglio regarding Summorum Pontificum, and we probably shouldn't try to offer one, either towards SP or towards Traditionalism (we'll look very silly in doing so, with the plethora of YouTube videos).
Please, if you find the time, look a little more thoroughly into your sources. In addition, the Una Voce Argentina site has a trojan virus embedded in it's header, be sure to check your antivirus and I would recommend removing the link as there are no Mass Listings on that site...
However, lastly, I want to say, that we must rally behind Pope Francis, it's no good picking his faults (and, incidentally, it's also no good embellishing him either).
True, he may not have the best track record at championing Tradition, but that does not mean that all is lost.
Pope Francis is the only Pope that God has got to work with, and I hope and pray that Pope Francis is willing to do as God wishes. Only time will tell, all we need now, is not just a moratorium on liturgical innovation, but also a moratorium on all this commentary.
With respect,
CatholicScout.
Rodolfo - many thanks for confirming the authenticity of the map. (I bet you never thought it would get so much attention!) :-)
Thinker - now now, you are not entirely unpredictable yourself. Do bear in mind that Bergoglio was an opponent of liberation theology and his idea of social justice, from extensive experience, may not be what some are expecting from a humble South American Pope.
Thanks for posting this. Encouraging. God bless your blog.
Catholic Scout - fair point. I am not claiming that there was an enthusiastic or adequate implementation of SP in Argentina, just that the claim that there were no EF Masses in Argentina at all, is false.
Father, this is incorrect. It was NOT a 1962 Mass — it was a hybrid. There are no TLMs in his archdiocese.
Story here: http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-horror-buenos-aires-journalist.html
How many of those six Masses were in Buenos Aires? He was Bishop of Buenos Aires, not the whole of Argentina
This seems to be about the entire country. Can anyone name a church where a traditional Latin Mass (besides the SSPX) is currently being offered in the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires? (And please check, and double-check, the diocesan boundaries within the country before responding.)
Well I have just read the comments here and the links that David Joyce suggested and I am now deeply, deeply depressed.
I know I shouldn't even begin to question the Holy Spirit but this really is unfathomable.
I feel the urge to run to the spiritualty, safety and sanctuary of the Churches of the SSPX.
At least Pinoccchio won't be there.
Bergoglio can only do so much in a few years to encourage the spread of the EF. How many priests do you think were trained in it when SP came down? Sure, the Cardinal could do more to encourage the education of his priests, but he can't force it. SP is more a grassroots effort than a top-down. It encourages the faithful and individual priests to take the initiative. If there is not the interest or initiative on the ground, then what can you expect the Cardinal to do? At least the claims that he suppressed SP are clearly false.
The liturgy will most likely not be a priority of Francis' pontificate, but I very much doubt he will do anything to roll back Benedict XVI's efforts on that front. I believe that at the very worst, he will take no more steps forward. Who knows, he might surprise us.
Father, I knew there were TLMs in the Archdiocese of La Plata. I was sketchy-having heard there were none, or were poorly implemented- on the situation in the Archdiocese Buenos Aires. Thank you, and thank you to Rodolfo Bonnin. I think I should eat my words from yesterday.
This Article here by Fr Finigan is mentioned.
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/03/how-summorum-pontificum-was-blocked-and.html
This is becoming quite a little tempest.
Rorate Caeli now has a new, longer treatment of the question up (http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/03/how-summorum-pontificum-was-blocked-and.html), and does confirm what I was seeing this morning on Wikki Missa: no diocesan TLM's in Buenos Aires archdiocese proper, save by the SSPX - the ones there are all in outlying dioceses. And the one actually started bythe archdiocese in September 2007 seems to have been a strange EF-OF hybrid that seems to have driven away most of the interested Catholics.
It's a shame that there could not have been more pastoral solicitude for Catholics attached to or interested in liturgical tradition. But I don't know why exactly all this happened, or who was responsible. It's disappointing, but harder to tell what it portends for the Church going forward. That said, I don't expect Pope Francis to revoke Summorum Pontificum, either, now that he's Pope.
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/03/how-summorum-pontificum-was-blocked-and.html
Doesn't the number of available Latin Masses depend on how many people want it in a given area? Do we know for a fact that multitudes of laity ( not priests) want it and can't access it? Or are we presuming there are multitudes?
David Joyce's reference to Pinocchio being introduced during a Mass sounds very damning. The video clip (10 mins) is actually of a 'Mass for Children' and looks like the sort of open air end-of-catechetical-year-outing for hundreds of children who have followed a weekly catechism course. They are excited: the summer holidays are coming! A Cardinal who can keep the attention of hundreds of young children during an outdoor Liturgy of the Word is a treasure, indeed. Please can we be careful not to infer that this Spanish tradition of using large puppets as part of the liturgy (including here, Pinocchio presumably because he illustrates a moral point and is familiar to children) is in any way an indication that Cardinal Bergoglio indulges in the sort of liturgical innovations that make the flesh creep and the soul weep. That would be untrue and unfair.
Father,
Of course it was a surprise! I'm astonished after looking at the statistics, as people from New Zealand to Turkey, are visiting the map!
Surprisingly, even though I added the tracking a bit later today, no visit from Italy yet, from the set of near 600 recent visits.
In answer toBill Bannon, I gather the SSPX is very strong in Argentina.
I find the ongoing debate over the Traditional Latin Mass tiring to say the least. Holy Mass is Mass, it is the Sacrifice of Jesus on Calvary whether it is celebrated in Novus Ordo or TLM. The most important thing is reverence and respect for the Holy Mass and the Presence of Our Dear Lord in the Holy Eucharist. We must not become Phariseeical about all this and only look at externals. This kind of extremism turns many Catholics off going to the Latin Mass. My prayer is that the Holy Father will keep what our Pope Emeritus, Benedict XVI started and we must pray for Pope Francis and pray for the Cardinals and for those he chooses as Prefects of the various Congregations. We continue to pray and hope.
Jen,
Galatians 5:20 considers factions and parties the works of the flesh...just like fornication. Be careful. God killed about a million "religious" people in 70 AD in Jerusalem according to Josephus' count. That is a warning to you and me and all of us with strong opinions.
Maybe traditionalists should consider the point of the Mass, instead of just fixating on the form of the Mass.
The Holy Father lives the purpose of the Mass a lot better than I do.
http://skellmeyer.blogspot.com/2013/03/pope-francis-and-divine-love.html
Steve said...
Maybe traditionalists should consider the point of the Mass, instead of just fixating on the form of the Mass.
Unfortunately you are forgetting the old Catholic saying of lex orandi, lex credendi - the law of prayer forms the law of belief. In other words, the way you pray reflects what you believe. If you clothe the "point of the Mass" in a casual form that depends on the celebrant (or the parish liturgical committee) to make it a reverent act of worship, then you are detracting from the essence of the Mass itself. It should really come to no surprise, given the liturgical changes of the last past half-century, that belief in the real presence of Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament is so low, especially with innovations such as receiving Holy Communion in the hand, the use of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion and the like.
If the "form of the Mass" nurtures a belief in the sacrifice of the Mass and the real presence of Our Lord, then it is clearly worthy. If it diminishes these realities then it clearly isn't, and the Novus Ordo - for example - undeniably reduces the references of sacrifice and other distinctly Catholic notions in terms of Christian worship. According to the "Ottaviani Intervention", the "the Novus Ordo represents, both as a whole and in its details, a striking departure from the Catholic theology of the Mass as it was formulated in Session XXII of the Council of Trent", and by "a series of equivocations the emphasis is obsessively placed upon the 'supper' and the 'memorial' instead of on the unbloody renewal of the Sacrifice of Calvary" and "It is evident that the Novus Ordo has no intention of presenting the Faith as taught by the Council of Trent, to which, nonetheless, the Catholic conscience is bound forever". If this is correct, and its criticism was aimed at the Latin version of the Novus Ordo, not a translation, then this newer form of the Mass can weaken us in our faith, rather than strengthen us in our journey to heaven.
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